Wednesday, March 23, 2016

Signs of intelligent life at Planet Jihad Watch...

In the wake of Brussels, I thought I'd dip back into Jihad Watch comments, from which I recoiled in disgust for the most part when I snapped at the Same Old/Same Old of the CJM (Counter-Jihad Mainstream) after Paris last September.

In a notice there of a recent story of Cruz calling for us to "patrol and secure Muslim neighborhoods before they become radicalized" I found some refreshing signs of life.

While the old guard (Wellington, gravenimage, Champ, JayBoo, mortimer, Angemon) still weighs in there with their obtuse caution wearing the formal attire of Prudent Outrage, I was pleasantly surprised by more eruptions than I used to see of reasonably impatient calls for (or obvious allusions to) deportation of Muslims -- along with an unwillingness to buy the Mainstream Crap of Cruz.

My commentary in square brackets interspersed:

Cruz’s policy means that we will be forever chasing Jihadis. It will never end.

It is better to bite the bullet once. Defeat Islam at home and abroad. The surrender to be unconditional. Then re-draw the map of the ME. Make a couple of Christian states, that will be part of NATO. As part of the surrender terms, all Muslims in the West to be re-settled in countries that are to their liking. 

[Good comment except the "to their liking" part; who cares about their "liking"?  Just ship them out: throw some darts blindfolded at a map of OIC countries and send them there, and if the host countries complain, send them a gift-wrapped CARE package of FU.]

Cruz still genuflects before the altar of political correctness. Muslims do not get ‘radicalised,’ they simply change from non-observant Muslims into real Muslims.

[Even this is problematic, for it implies that "non-observant" is a quantifiable phenomenon sufficient for our #1 priority, our society's safety; but it's on the right track, as is the rest of Gray's comment:]

As far as Islam is concerned, the ‘non-observant Muslim’ is an apostate – and we all know what happens to apostates in Islam. There is no such thing as a ‘moderate Muslim,’ because there is nothing at all ‘moderate’ about Islam – any more than there is ‘moderate Nazism’ or ‘moderate Communism.’ ‘Moderate Terrorism’ anyone? Islam is a totalitarian, all encompassing secular political ideology, cloaked in a veneer of religious trappings to delude the gullible kaffur, and to help qualify for all the taxpayer funded goodies that ‘religions’ can line up for in the West. It has absolutely nothing to do with ‘religion’ as that term is generally understood in the Wes. For God’s (not Allah’s) sake, can’t we in the West be honest enough to face reality here? The Muslims invading Europe know exactly what they are doing, and what they want to achieve.. Why can’t we see that?

[And I've noticed the salutary comments of this "Gray" before (also see my follow-up essays, Scrubbing Bubbles and Post-Scrubtum).]

[Then there was my old nemesis, "awake", who seems to be less half-asleep than he used to be:]

People who have been forced to read the Koran and grow up as Muslims are all potentially radicalized. Muslims are all radicalized by nurture and nature, according to the doctrine of Islam.
Monitoring them once entrance has been afforded is an epic fail.
Do not allow any more to enter. Then and only then, can you begin to fumigate.
In this regard, Cruz is less than half right and I am less than half-happy with him.

[Notice, however, his gingerly avoidance of total deportation, naturally.]

[Even better was one "abad":]

I have a better idea.
Round them all up and deport them back to Syria.
Muslims come to the USA for ONE reason and ONE reason only:
To massacre us.

[A reply to abad's good comment from "Ex-muslim" seemed sound, but for one telltale twitch (see if the reader can spot it):]

Absolutely right! Anyone who follows islam wholeheartedly becomes evil and needs to be jailed or deported. islam is an evil cult of death, hate, murder, ignorance, darkness, barbarity, beheading, stoning, crucifixions, burning, honor-killing, suicide bombing,
pedophilia and savagery. The only way that Western peoples can be safe from muslim barbarity is to BAN this islamic death cult now! .

[The readers who spotted the "wholeheartedly" win an all-expenses-paid round-trip ticket to Dearborn...   The problem with that word is that it implies we can tell which Muslims are "wholehearted" in following Islam and which ones aren't -- which would in turn require either a mind-reading machine or a vetting process relying upon superficial indicators (wearing blue jeans, friendly smile, no long beard, soothing Westernized phrases in our ear...).  As such, the word is masking an inability to take the bull by the horns so that the person can hide behind his bravado & braggadocio he uses to lash out against all the "wholehearted" Islam while he studiously avoids the Whole Enchilada.]

[Similarly, one "Dom107" uses the locution of "vulnerable to radicalization":]

Strong action is required wherever this evil cult arises and the head of the snake in Syria and Iraque must be cut off.!!!
I heard someone government Minister in the British Parliament say ISIS is a perversion of Islam.It is not, it is Islam and all Muslims by believing it have signed up for this deal whether they fully practice it or not. They are thus all vulnerable to radicalisation in the mosques or elsewhere.

[Again, this reinforces the disastrously naive notion that the distinction between "radicalized" Muslims and those Muslims "vulnerable to radicalization" can be determined with reliability adequate for our #1 priority, the safety of our societies.]

We need all Muslims refugees gone, and visa muslims. If American born do anything, life or death sentence depending on the crime.

[Now this comment by Pam Dworshak exemplifies a subtle, but quite common, problem in the CJM especially among the rank-and-file civilians of the movement -- namely, the inability to appreciate our role in this war of ideas we are all involved in.  Pam Dworshak seems to think our role is to advocate present practicable policy.  The problem with this is that it is reasonable to suppose that such prescriptions as Pam expresses aren't going to be even considered let alone implemented for decades.  Given this political-cultural reality, what we in the Counter-Jihad should be doing is pushing memes, injecting ideas into the Public Conversation, provoking thought, with an eye to changing minds -- not carefully calibrating what we think our politicians ought to do right now.  And the meme, the idea, the thought we should be promoting is Total Deportation of all Muslims, based upon the rational conclusion that Muslims are engaged in a global revival of their perennial jihad against us, and that if there exist any genuinely harmless Muslims among these roiling, pullulating, complex masses of millions of infiltrators, we cannot distinguish them from the dangerous ones with reliability adequate for our #1 priority, the safety of our societies over the long term as this century unfolds.  The sooner the West grapples with and grasps this, the less costly, messy, and bloody will be our response to this problem; while the longer we wait, the costlier, messier, and bloodier it will be.  But as long as even the Counter-Jihad -- the one Canary in the Coalmine of the West if any there be -- keeps quibbling and fiddling while Rome burns, sending mixed signals some of which reinforce the PC MC Mainstream's phobia about condemning all Muslims for their Islam, we may well be doomed by the time the generation of our great grandchildren comes of age.  That has been my meme -- my memo to the Counter-Jihad -- ever since I snapped after Paris last September.]

[Moving on, I was then heartened to see a waft of fresh air after this from one "Jerry":]

All active Islamic terror participants
and supporters with blood on their
hands or directly connected should
be apprehended and executed.
The less virulent should be deported
to their countries of origin and
or ancestry.

[And from the "EggZACKLY" Department:]

Your too late, Senator Cruz. They already are radicalized. Islam is radical by definition and so are Mohammad’s followers.

[And from the "Amen" Division:]

‘Radical Islamic terrorism’? That is versus what, ‘moderate Islamic terrorism’? ‘Mild Islamic terrorism’? ‘Radical Islamic social engineering?’ Not one US Republican or Democratic candidate has looked Islam squarely in the face and called a spade a spade.

[And from the "I'll Drink To That" Office:]

Just deport the Muslims and close the Mosques. We have better things to do than ‘patrol Muslim neighborhoods’.

[To this wonderfully blunt contribution by Havoc, I would only add that one of the thousands and thousands of better things we could be doing includes this:

[But I digress...]

[Oh, and speaking of cats, one "citycat" points out a sobering fact still not fully digested by the CJM:]

There is nothing that Muslims do that is not part of Islãm.

[On a related note, we get "Richard Paulsen" (any relation to Pat...?) sounding something close to the right note, but no cigar:]

Don´t believe in becoming radicalized suddenly by chance. Believe they are being ordered. By family, community, the imams..There is no democratic islam state. 

[The notion that Muslims are "being ordered" -- by "family, community, the imams" -- implies that Muslims are automatons who have no free will and responsibility for their actions; and that they do not willfully intend, affirm and desire the extremist fanaticism that is the Islam which is the most important thing in their lives.  Also note the amusing paradox in his locution:  if Muslims are "being ordered" by "family, community, the imams" who is "ordering" all those Muslims comprised by "family" and "community"...?  And what Muslims are left over anyway after you eliminate "family" and "community"...?  These are just a few of the contortions a person works himself into when avoiding the rational blanket condemnation of all Muslims to which the mountains of data all around us lead, and about which the oceans of dots available to us scream to be connected.]

[Meanwhile, another breeze of fresh air:]

How, exactly, does one ‘secure’ a Muslim neighbourhood? Build a fence around it? Or, deport all of the residents and demolish the neighbourhood?

[Followed by another pleasant breeze, though carrying a particle that caught in my eye...]

Why should we spend tax dollars to babysit a whole demographic of people to protect us from them acting upon the tenets of their faith?
At least Cruz is speaking some truth, but this kind of measure is unrealistic.
No Islam on our shores! This is not a religion, and it should not be protected as such in our nation. We should give shelter to apostates, and those whom this wicked ideology holds captive for fear of being killed or harassed by the Muslim community at large, and the rest should be shoved over the border to somewhere else. What if we used that porous southern border to our advantage for a change and sent them to Mexico? That might kill two birds with one stone…

[I guess Lesley never heard of boats and airplanes to transport people; they've been around for about 150 years, now better than ever and marvelously efficient...]

[Then long-time Jihad Watch comments veteran Paleologous weighed in with a mostly salutary comment, but with a hint of toadying up to Robert Spencer:]

“We need to empower law enforcement to patrol and secure Muslim neighborhoods before they become radicalized,” Cruz said in a statement issued after the attacks, which killed at least 32 people and wounded dozens. …
The sad fact is that this is a pipe dream. Until the world understands the intrinsic evil that is islam, in a way that Robert, Geert Wilders, Benedict XVI, and blessed too few others understand, people will delude themselves into thinking that you can “secure muslims” from radicalization. islam is a radicalization. You cannot separate islam from radicalization.

[Au contraire, Spencer does not express a robust understanding of "the intrinsic evil that is Islam" but often sends mixed signals -- when he is not stepping gingerly around the popsicle toes of PC MC...]

[Finally (for now), when a commenter who calls himself "Mickey Oberman" broached a truly no-nonsense and deeply invigorating sentiment of total deportation, one of the members of the JW Peanut Gallery, the ever reliable "Jay Boo" (friend of Wellington, gravenimage, Champ, Miriam, Angemon, et al.), just had to have an elbow spasm:]

Wake up, Mr. Cruz.
As long as there are Muslims living in our midst these horror actions will continue without end.
They now virtually own Dearborn and Hamtramck. What is next?
All Muslims must be returned to their countries of origin. Like it or not. Do it or die.

Don’t be silly Obo
That comment stinks.
Cruz slams the Islamophobia industry and you dare to slam the messenger as being too politically correct.
This is not the first time that you have pulled that stinking rabbit out of your hat Obo.
If it walks like a skunk their is no need to lift the tail.


And for those playing the home game, yes, that uncanny commenter named "Fessitude" nimbly posting here and there in that Jihad Watch comments thread was moi.  (See, for example, my riposte to the notoriously asymptotic Jihad Watch regular and Wilsonian Christian "Kepha".)


Egghead said...

Look here! Turkey deported the known militant 'Belgian' bomber TO Belgium! If Turkey can deport militant Muslims TO the West, then why can't the West deport militant Muslims to XYZ? Oh nevermind....

Hesperado said...

Well, Egghead, the Angemons at Jihad Watch comments and the rest of the Peanut Gallery of Spencer Loyalists there have no problem deporting the Tiny Minority of Extremists; it's when deportation is broadened to include all the Muslims Who Just Wanna Have a Sandwich that they begin to balk and go into a Jacksonian march of asymptotic spasms, causing them to resemble PC MCs.

Egghead said...

Yes, but Turkey deported the bomber TO Belgium! Argh!

Egghead said...

Here're Sikhs acting like Muslims:

Egghead said...

Did Europe really just put Turkey in charge of its immigration policy?!

The Turkey 'deal' just ADDS Muslim Turks to the pot of Muslim 'refugees' in Europe: